From: Doug Sutherland (wearable_at_earthlink.net)
Date: 2001-12-03 11:42:58
Yaniv,
I noticed that you sent an email to the biopf_at_y...
list which is populated by professional practitioners. I
wanted to make a few comments on that post ...
> this is yaniv , from the buildcheapeeg volunteer group,
> again. cuirrently we have a finished version of a low
> cost nfb machine ready for field testing.
Is it really ready for field testing? Which design are
you referring to (ComADC?) and which software runs with
it? Are you saying that the DigitalGuru code is the
software at this point? Does it have all of the features
that might be required in field testing? Finished hardware
does not equal a finished nfb machine.
> the main problems that prevent us from field testing,
> and from having the option to offer this to public/
> professional are
>
>1. lack of legal support
This sounds like a big ball of wax to me. I know that
brainmaster is sold in two versions, one is clinical
and one is non-clinical. The interesting thing is that
they are the SAME. The only difference is that the non
clinical version is NOT for clinical use, and does NOT
come with the documentation for clinical training
protocols. Interestingly, when I bought my non-clinical
brainmaster they gave me everything, including the docs
and all for the clinical programs. Some comments:
Question: does the current software have features like
brainmaster for setting up training protocols, and
saving user sessions? This is a must for any kind of
field test. If the practitioner can't program in his
protocols (thresholds, alarms, etc) then it's not
much use. Are these features in the DigitalGuru code?
Do we have permission to use the DigitalGuru code for
field testing? Is there a feature to save protocol
setting by user? If not, then the practitioner has
to keep reprogramming them in for each user, not a
fun job. If I was them, I would probably just use
one of the others like brainmaster unless there was
good reason to use this one.
Comment: Regarding legal support, I don't think any
outside group or entity is going to touch this with
a ten foot pole. They won't want to be liable. So
where that leave you? How far have you looked into
the legal issues? I think there is probably a big
difference between a commercial (sold) device vs a
free design full of disclaimers. Who are you asking
for legal support from: the professional NF people?
I don't think you're going to get any help from
them. In the case of brainmaster, there was a
company entity selling them, they filed some papers
with FDA, etc. If you really want to sell these
things to the public, I don't see how you can do
that without actually forming a company with all of
the legalese. Or maybe it could be a not-for-profit
organization. I dunno, I'm just an engineer. But
with no legal support or whatever I doubt that any
professional BF/NF person is going to touch this.
> 2. lack of support from an ngo that would like to
> see cheap eeg on the market, or connection with
> any organization that would like to give us some
> support.
Question: what is an NGO?
Question: what do you want and need as support
from them?
Comment: I see a quite a few practitioners using
brainmaster. That tells me that a low-cost design
is in demand. Many people are using these for
home training of ADD/ADHD etc.
But if your target is $100 EEG, how and why do you
arrive at that target price? If the machine is not
capable enough in terms of frequency response or
sampling rate or noise or software feature, then
all it will ever be is another HAL hobby kit for
people to play with. Have you asked the professional
BF/NF community what they think is an acceptable
set of specs (electrical etc) and features (in
the software)?
> we would appreciate any help from any of you.
> of course any help would make the field testing
> and the availability of such a device much sooner.
Yaniv: I've been a professional technologist for
13 years, I worked for Sun Microsystems, and I
have a pretty good idea what flies and what does
not. The WORST thing you can do is release ANY
design to the CUSTOMER before it is ready. That
is a big mistake. I may be off base here, please
correct me if I'm not, but I don't think you have
a complete machine (you need software!) and I
would say you're not done alpha testing. The
first field tests need to be among developers,
not among the NF crowd! So if you want this to
fly I suggest that we find a way to get the PCB
boards in the hands of me, Jim-M, Jim-P, Laurie,
and whoever else is willing to develop and test
this. If we use it we can make sure that it's
ready for field testing. Offering a half-cooked
product to the customer is a mistake. It has to
be at least 90% done/tested before you should
even offer it as beta/early access to anyone
like a professional BF/NF person.
-- Doug
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