From: Jim Meissner (jpmeissner_at_mindspring.com)
Date: 2001-12-10 16:19:56
Dear Doug:
Jim-M wrote:
> I have annoyed Doug by stating that I do not think EEG/NF
> is very effective, but that has been my experience. Most
> of the New Age literature is wrong in explaining how the
> brain works. Feeding certain tones or frequencies to the
> ears or even the eyes, does "not" show up in brainwaves!
Read what I said. The frequencies do not show up in the brainwave measurement. The EEG will not show the frequencies that you feed to the ears or even the eyes. Even the binaural difference frequency does not show up on the EEG. Nothing of interest shows up on the EEG as you diddle around with the frequencies!
> Jim-M says that binaural beats (and frequency following response)
> doesn't work.
A more accurate quote would be that it does not work as described in the New Age literature. "Moving the brain wave frequency from Beta (14.5 Hz) to Alpha (10 Hz) by giving the brain a 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 Hz signals" is the technique quoted most often. Again, this will not show up on the EEG as a change in brain waves frequencies.
> lucid dreaming. I assume that this implies that they are
> in fact changing my brain wave patterns. Maybe after I get
> one of the ModularEEGs up and running I can show that with
> real data.
Well, we shall see whether your "ASSUME" is correct
NOW, I did not say, or even imply that it was not possible to influence thebrain. If you did something like listening to my Synchronizer, the shift in "Brain State" would show up on the EEG. There are many other methods "out there" that work. Some better than others. My statement to you in the beginning was that I believe that the Synchronizer programs will be significantly more effective than EEG/NF for changing the brain state of a person.But you can do it the hard way if you like. Been there done that! I also wanted to see brain wave. That is why I built my own brain wave monitor.
Juergen P. (Jim) Meissner
Check out my Website at www.MeissnerResearch.com
Read about the benefits of the Brain State Synchronizer sounds for improving your life and health.
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Sutherland
To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [buildcheapeeg] Re: Meditation
Hi Lucas,
> there is a shareware program called "brainwave generator".
> it generates a binaural beat based on a bunch of settings.
There are quite a few new ones showing up, including
SBaGen which works on linux. I have links to them here.
http://home.earthlink.net/~wearable/biopsy/#entrainment-software
The nutshell of that discussion revolved around biofeedback
versus other tools (esp entrainment) for meditation. Jim-M
says that binaural beats (and frequency following response)
doesn't work. My experience with Dr Jeffrey Thompsons CD-ROMs
(Brainwave Suite) certainly does have an effect on me. From
what I've observed on several lists, it seems like this
binaural beat stuff works for some people and not for others.
Jim's brain state synchronizer apparently uses a different
technique of shifting the sounds between ears rather than
differential of frequeny between ears. I will have to try
that out some day and see for myself.
Jim-M wrote:
> I have annoyed Doug by stating that I do not think EEG/NF
> is very effective, but that has been my experience. Most
> of the New Age literature is wrong in explaining how the
> brain works. Feeding certain tones or frequencies to the
> ears or even the eyes, does "not" show up in brainwaves!
Well Jim, I have probably equally annoyed you, so perhaps
we are even :) My experience has been different. Firstly,
the Jeffrey Thompson entrainment CD-ROMS centainly do
affect me. I have not measured my brain waves while using
them, but they immediately send me drifting. They seem to
be sending me past the "alpha bridge" into intutive states,
and the results are quite phenomenal for me, much like
lucid dreaming. I assume that this implies that they are
in fact changing my brain wave patterns. Maybe after I get
one of the ModularEEGs up and running I can show that with
real data.
Regarding EEG/NF, I did some alpha training using the
Brainmaster EEG. Prior to doing this I could not very
easily reach intuitive states, and I also had not been
remembering dreams for quite some time. After doing the
alpha training, now I seem to be able to shift my mind
into alpha, and thus bridging to the lower unconscious
states using no tech at all. My current method for
doing this is a completely non-tech method. My interest
in EEG is more for long-term monitoring research and
also alternative HCI research. I will say however that
both binaural beats and NF had positive effects on me.
-- Doug
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : 2002-07-27 12:28:33 BST