From: sademade (sademade_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 2001-12-22 06:57:49
> The advantage of a cross-platform development library would be that
> both Windows and Linux coders could work on the *same* source code,
> maximizing cooperation, reducing development efforts, and
> multiplying the value of testing time.
Matlab + matcom generates fully portable C code, so it should
not be a cause for stings. VB was just a throw as a idea of
RAD tool, as, sometimes, one man with RAD tools can produce
a pack of software that could take team of others using slower
tools. If you can help to find the tools where the coding of the
actual mat routines and displaying them, is the majority of
the effort, and GUI creating is little, with some great Linux
tools, please inform, and if you know faster and better way to
deal with C code generating of the math routines, than for
example, matlab, of the linux tools, would be great to know,
too.
What are better choices to generate GUI and Math code fast,
and reduce the GUI code time expenditure to fraction of total
time compared to hand-coding the GUI codes and same with the
math codes ? If such exist for linux, for free, that should
of course be the choice, then.
> I seem to remember someone talking about creating brain-wave
training
> programs with flying witches and so on. For this kind of thing, a
> game library would be perfect. It would also be useful for other
> animated graphical representations of brain activity.
I know GREAT tool for this, but very few people know of it, though
it is free on sourceforge, namely meme\metatopia. But, that is
not for anyone anymore than Bash/C is, but it is superior to any
other library out there. THe lib has already been used to visualize
EMG and EEG signals by several U PhDs and Psychologists to treat
obsessive compulsive people, very potent development system for
those who can code both C and forth-like shell language.
It is open source, and available for download on sourceforge.
Also has VR-display support, and networking support, for group
meditation applications.
One can create the objects with 3DSMAX compatible objects, and
there are freeware 3-d progs that one can create the renderware
compatible objects, and as stated, RenderWare donated version
2 of their libraries to free use for the Meme/Metatopia.
It is pretty ready solution, it can be compiled into a part of
larger C overall structure, and allows real-time dynamic creation
of objects, and the object code is packed with the objects that
control their movements/interaction with other objects, and,
furthermore, the code can be altered dynamically in realtime to
change object behaviours when they come in contact with other
objects in the 3-d space. Lack of audio-driver is only minus, but
otherwise, the pack has giant potential to those who can use it.
Even I can, so, perhaps some others, could, too, as it is much
easier than having to be massive Linux guru on dozens of libraries.
use search words "Groot" and "metatopia" and "meme" and you find
your way to the sourceforge repository of the hidden, but really
potent 3-d object system, that has co-operative multitasking to
control different objects to allow parallel control and rendering
of the different beahviours of different objects.
This should allow for massive time gain for higher concepts of
EEG-VR and EEG->gaming ...
> In any case, if we can even share just some basic core libraries, as
> Sam pointed out, that would be worth it.
Perhaps, if those libraries are powerful and easy to use fast.
> Personally, I'm not a GUI coder, so don't ask me about widget sets.
And, yet you were ready to shoot down the idea of using RAD
tools to gain speed ... I do not want to say no for designing
multi-stage analog amp just because I am bad in analog shielding,
though using A/D and single stage amp might help to make it easier,
however, I am suggesting explorint it, as it might speed things
up ...
> However, libSDL was designed for game coders, so I can understand
>it.
> Whether it's suitable for the job, we won't know until someone has
> tried it.
Isn't the goal to get basic EEG software together first, and leave
the games way to the future, as the treatment and helping people
to feel better should override need for entertainment or how ?
> Linux is not the minefield that you make it out to be. My SBaGen
>code runs on kernel versions 1.? to 2.4, both i386 and PowerPC,
>without changes, and without problem.
It is coming together, and is not a minefield, but would not want
to spend ions in coding the GUI code, and there is trouble to find
RAD GUI tools that are solid, and free, and easy. I do NOT want to
spend my short life to something that could be avoided, is there
something wrong with that ? Why not seek for fastest tools, no
matter where they come from, and if they are available on the linux,
the better, I love free open stuff, of course.
> Recently I've been trying to learn all I can about FIR/IIR/filters/
> wavelets/etc, in the short term to get a brain-wave pitch-shifter
> working well (the problem being getting the response time fast
> enough). I've also found a little bit of info that might help us
>make a parametric filter, which is one of the things that Doug saw
> as a requirement.
I already mentioned the "Buzz" packag which has great open-source
filters available for it, and I would RECOMMEND looking at it
as a model for structure how to implement parametric filter blocks,
as that software has been out there for long, and proven itself ...
Did you give any effort to look at it ?
I am here to learn from others, and I am not sure that all I have
told is outdated, or completely alzheimerized, as many of us did
study signal processing and image processing, even though it was
years ago before falling ill and getting disabled.
Found personally "Contemporary Linear Systems" Using Matlab
by Kirk and Strum much better and easier to understand than
most of the FFT/IIR/FIR/Median/Z-transform/Hillebrand etc
stuff that was in our coursebooks at the U explained in too
academic way, making learning of them almost impossible, but
same was very understandable in the Contemporary Linear systems,
even a differential-math-stiff that did not get far past
annihilators was able to do miracles with the practical methods
of the Con Lin Sys a la Kirk and Strum.
Those of us who are just mortal with math, could definitely
give ConLinSys by Kirk and Strum a look as it can explains
from basic convolutions trough variety of basic filtering
concepts to intermediate level start, from where one is
much better of continuing with intermed and advanced concepts
than without the book.
Then again, trying to make things easier for the less gifted
has always made some academic types to spit venom, but those
of us who have only DI level education, can not afford the
math professor academics style, as it makes life too short, and
worthless. I learned more in few days with practical type
D.Sc people who happened to want to teach math at later days,
than in years with the adacemic non-technical university types,
who really destroyed the willingness to learn more than 1+1.
The partial sub-blankets of topology and epsilon aproaching zero
really is not very interesting or motivating.
This project does not need it, it needs ease, rapidness, and
openness.
> If Ican get this well-tuned and tested in C, then this could be
> incorporated into almost anything, on any platform -- even embedded
> systems.
> Jim
Did that already with matlab and matcom trials, when had access
to it. Runs well on Siemens C167CR embedded 16-bitter, with
practically no changes. Reason discovered was because some
englithtened soul in Germany had figured this as a really rapid
method, and followed it. Recommend giving deeper look at it.
Sade M.
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