From: Jim Meissner (jpmeissner_at_mindspring.com)
Date: 2002-01-20 07:10:16
Dear Giovanni:
Welcome to the list. I looked at your very nice webpage and I will have some questions, but first your question.
> Enough rambling from me - any thoughts on where to place each of the
> four EEG electrodes
My first introduction to EEG measurement was meeting Dr. Edith Jurka and working with her Mind Mirror. She had studied with Maxwell Cade in England. I noticed that the book "The Awakened Mind" by Maxwell Cade is listed on your webpage. I strongly recommend that you read that. The book by Anna Wise is much quoted, but to me it is a very poor copy of the Cade book. The Cade book suits the engineer in me while the Wise book is too "right" brained and full of new-age fluff.
With the majority of my EEG testing over the years, I have stayed with the Cade probe placement. Now I suppose you want to know what that is? Well, the ground goes to the middle of the forehead. Then there is a pair of right and a pair of left channel electrodes. The technical placement is F1 - O1 and F2 - O2. On the forehead, locate the scalp hair line or where it used to be. Put the right channel electrode directly over the right eye at the hair line, and similarly for the left channel. The occipital region is a little more difficult to describe. There is a place on the back of the head called the innion (sp?). That is a little bony protrusion at the back of the head, in the center at the top of the neck and where the scull starts. You should be able to feel it. Draw an imaginary line one inch above this. The rear electrodes go on this line and are spaced the same as the eye distance. Getting through the hair and making good low ohm connections isa serious challenge.
You mention remote viewing on your website. I met Ingo Swann at Dr. Jurka's house several times and General Burt Stubblebine who ran the military project. Also I live next to the Monroe Institute and know Joe McMoneagle andSkip Atwater.
Juergen P. (Jim) Meissner
Check out my Website at www.MeissnerResearch.com
Read about the benefits of the Brain State Synchronizer sounds for improving your life and health.
----- Original Message -----
From: Giovanni Moretti
To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:23 AM
Subject: RE: [buildcheapeeg] Re: New schematic and layout + New List Member
Hi Guys & Gals
Let me introduce myself - Giovanni Moretti from New Zealand - CompSci
Lecturer with an electronics & microcontroller background. Interested in
the same sort of oddball stuff I've seen go past on this list in the
last two days. Nice to find some other technically competent loonies :-)
Whilst searching for some more up-to-date microcontroller info than the
8051's I'd been using I came across the SimmStick systems from
Dontronics - it's basically a Lego-like kitset approach to prototyping
microcontrollers, including both PIC, AVR and 8051 series. I use these
for my own prototyping (click on my site link below for more info).
> I am really excited about the project and it
> is actually the sole reason that I am starting to get
> interested in electronics and actually ordered a starterkit
> for programming Atmels AVR-processors today :-).
Joel, the fragment in your email that prompted me to reply was the part
about getting started with AVRs - No I'm NOT trying to sell you
something :-), but you might like to check out the FREE basic compiler
for the AVR micros from www.mcselec.com - It's a wonderful TurboPascal/C
like environment for developing AVR systems and is especially good as it
has a LARGE number of interface subroutines predefined(EG button
debounce, serial drivers, LCD drivers 4 & 8 bit, keypad decoders, IR
infra-red decoders ...). The free version will compiler up to 1K of code
- that's enough to fill the AT90S2313 20pin AVR CPU (which you can get
from www.digikey.com for about $4). For more code you have to register
the compiler but for many projects the free compiler and the 2313 AVR is
sufficient.
For example, I've just used Bascom to program up a precision low
frequency synthesised sinewave generator using the 2313 to let me
generate 7.81Hz, 7.83Hz, 8.00Hz to accuracies of 0.001Hz to see if I can
detect any effect from low frequency magnetic fields - really odd - I
can feel the pulsing - only a few mA with a 5V swing if I'm close to the
coil. This is following up on the report from Robert Beck at
http://www.elfis.net/elfol8/e8elfeeg2.htm - does anyone on this list
know of any of the frequencies to be **avoided** in magnetic
entrainment?
Next project is a uP controlled GSR Audio feedback unit - so it
auto-zeros. My current one - (just op-amps and such) I have to keep
twiddling the knob as I relax and the frequency falls ...
> Joel wrote:
> It's hard to get started though, I have bought an experiment
> board and some components to test stuff with but there is
> much to learn before being able to do something useful. Any
> advice you can offer a beginner in electronics..? :-) Books,
> equipment, etc?
Joel, my one recommendation above all others would be to buy a cheap -
but calibrated oscilloscope (second hand would be fine - 10MHz or 20MHz
bandwidth, dual channel). The calibration is REALLY important - does it
have 5V, 2V, 1V, 0.5V, 0.2V down to 10mV per division and another one
with mS, and uS per division knobs? Working with electronics without a
scope would be like probramming with your eyes shut - the scope will
tell you things you won't find out any other way. It'll let you measure
DC volts, AC volts, frequency, pulse widths and that's just to start.
Also x10 scope probes are important - these reduce the (mainly
capacitive) load on whatever you're measuring. With a x1 probe, the
capacitance of the cable to the scope will alter the signal so what you
see is not quite as it was before you attached the probe.
I'm very interested in the EEG - I too would like just something that
(initially anyway) goes at all so I can SEE some of the stuff I've read
so much about. Just the front of head to the back (one channel) that
would be great. I've been loaned an old commercial 2 channel EEG (5
wires) but unfortunately it's owner has lost the manual and while I've
figured out which pairs of wires are the channels I'm not sure where on
my head to put them.
One point that became obvious even from just playing with the unit I've
been loaned is that - unless you're REALLY dedicated, most people aren't
going to like getting vast amounts of goo in their hair (well I find if
off-putting anyway :-) so the "market" (or no. of constructors) of
multichannel EEG will be very much small than one that simple does
front-to-back (one channel) or left and right hemispheres (two channel).
Enough rambling from me - any thoughts on where to place each of the
four EEG electrodes, and ELF magnetic entrainment frequencies - any
thoughts?
Enough of an intro - once you wind me up ... :-)
Cheers and thanks
Giovanni
========================================================================
====
Giovanni Moretti | FAST Atmel AVR, 2051 & PIC 16F84 development on
SimmStick
Palmerston North | Fringe Science, Brainwave Synchronisation, Remote
Viewing
New Zealand
|==========================================================
==== ZL2BOI =====| Visit Reflection Technology
http://www.reflections.co.nz
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : 2002-07-27 12:28:36 BST