From: yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com
Date: 2000-12-07 08:24:43
--- In buildcheapeeg_at_egroups.com, "Joerg Hansmann" <jhansmann_at_g...>
wrote:
> Hi yaniv,
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com>
> To: <buildcheapeeg_at_egroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:13 AM
> Subject: [buildcheapeeg] Re: hi folks
>
>
> > if you want to make it simple - it doesn't have to be true irda .
> > the first version of the desing could be consisted of 2 boxes :
> > one is the eeg with simplest infrared comm , and the other is
just
> > little thing that connects to parallel port/serial port , with
infra
> > red com .
>
> If you think of IR-receiver ICs like the TSOP17xx series, you should
> consider, that maximum data rate is 2400 baud (from Vishay
TSOP17.pdf
> datasheet ). That is far below the 57600 baud required by RS232EEG.
>
> Using a simple PIN-IR-receiver diode will work only over very short
> distances (some cm).
> BTW. what distance will we need ?
i think let's say 20 cm is enough and even a lot more then we need.
we just need to think about the comofrtablity of the user .
and also choose ir comm with apereture angle wide enough.
so the rx and tcx won't have to be exactly infront of each other .
>
> > i don't think that would higher the price much.
> > and the design is basicly already there (on the net).
>
> A complete schematic for an irda transceiver that can be connected
> to RS232 and can handle up to 115200 baud is described here:
> http://www.vishay.com/pdf/toim3232.pdf
> However it uses two SMD chips and I don't know, how easy or
difficult
> soldering will be.
send me the package name and description . don't send pdf - only
std formats like html - bmp - jpg and same - cause i can't read
them - i'll have to nstall a special software .
but basicly - the soldering shouldn't be hard .
i solder some smd chips , and i'm not really good with solder .
jhust practice a lkittle before - with lows cost chips and all will
be fine .
>
> > just for the 1st version i think it'll be good.
> > after the first version if all we'll be o.k. then i'll think we
could
> > work on better version easier - because we'll probably have more
> > people .
> > but maybe full irda is better , i don't know ?
> > > > ) and
> > > > with right box ( plastik with metal foil) we'll be safe enough
> > >
> > > The FDA probably wont think so before they have approved the
device.
> > >
> >
> > there's a eeg device called waverider - sells for $950 without
fda
> > approval -
>
> Perhaps they have a good lawyer or a good product liability
insurance.
we should have lawyer what's about it?
>
> > and it's presented in futurehealth site - a very
> > respectable site for this things .
> > and another thing - i agree we should check it with some b.f.
> > practicioner maybe - or somebody that will check .
> > maybe somebody should check what it takes to run throught an
> > fda - and how much it'll cost for a gruop of volunteers ,
> > and if it's possible to be done by a group of volunteers ?
> > but i don't really think fda approval is a must .
> > i just thjink we should really check it with someone experienced
> > before getting it to market - maybe some b.f. practicioner would
> > volunteer -if we'l find one .
>
> ...
> [patents]
> > > The overall principle is the same.
> >
> > there have been numerous designes basicly the same .
> > i don't really think there's a problem ,but i guess it's better
to
> > check , and as i seen in our group we may have contacts to a
lawyer -
> > so it'll be o.k.
> ...
>
> > a little question joerg :
> > assuming i want to be the first beta tester - let's say even of
the
> > version without irda - just a good version for portable pc (no
need
> > of isolation)
>
> The current prototype _is_ isolated with optoisolators. (The BM also
> uses optoisolators for RS232).
it's better
>
> > would like to build one board and send it to me - i'll pay the
> > costs ? how much are the costs ?
>
> Material cost (without casing) is about 200,- DM.
> shipping and insurance = ? (depends on the destination)
basicly it should be like $40 up to 5 kg , $63 up to 10 kg ,
airmail . but you tell me how much .
>
> Can you make money transfer to a german bank ?
> (When I tried to make a transfer from Germany to USA,
> I found out, that the banking fees are extremely high)
i'll fgure it out .
>
> Do you need casing or the raw assembled pcb ?
> What about RS232 cable ? What length ?
casing yes .
long cable is always better .
do you think 2 meter would have no problems as rs232?
>
> What about power supply ?
> If your laptop had a gameport-connector, +5V from your laptop
> could be used. However I don't know how much noise
> is on that line.
> Do you have the possibility to get +12V DC from your laptop ?
> In this case the built in 7805 regulator could be used and line
noise
> would not be a problem.
totaly battery based .
like 6 or 5 --> 1.5v batteries depending on your regulator .
> What connectors/sockets for electrodes are required ?
> (banana sockets ? (in german : Bananenbuchse))
> or better BNC or cinch ?
> I don't know the standard for eeg-electrodes...
>
> BTW. Where can I get good and low-priced EEG-electrodes ?
>
don't really much about this .
i think we should define the cponnector fpor the machine and test\
it with std. electrodes .
this type i would like to have .
i think 'll send a message to the group about electrodes ?
> > when it'll be ready stable enough
> > version of the h.w. - tested and tested in really measuring
> > brainwaves ?
>
> I have sampled real brainwaves with the RS232EEG and tried
> some alpha-feedback with Rob's Software.
>
> What are your demands for stability and tested in detail ?
i just want t to work with no problems here ?
how much time you have tested your last version ?
which tests?
wee should think on some pre beta tests
>
> > the software i can always download from the net , so no problem .
> >
> > basicly my problem that my friend in israel that was supoosed to
> > build brainmaster and send it to me - hasn't got the time - and
also
> > not very serious about it , so basicly i think he won't build it .
> >
> > i'm intend to find a buddhist lama here that would like to work
with
> > me using eeg and other buddhist techniques , so it may be also
good
> > for the public realtions of the project ?
>
> Sounds nice. I am really interested in samples of brainwaves of a
meditating
> lama. Perhaps Rob could add the feature of recording / viewing
> eeg-data files.
cool idea
>
>
> regards
>
> Joerg
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