From: yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com
Date: 2001-04-20 05:00:51
hi jim
--- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, peterson_at_d... wrote:
> --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, "Rob Sacks" <editor_at_realization.org> wrote:
> > > It would take a lot of neurofeedback to match the
> > > results of 30 years
> > > of meditation.
> >
> > Well, some folks spend a lot of years thinking they are
> > meditating, when in reality, they are only daydreaming
> > or thinking -- they may not realize they never really
> > understood the idea. I reprinted an article on my
> > website a few months ago by a guy who did that for
> > years, and then finally learned to meditate effectively
> > with neurofeedback. That's one of the appealing things
> > to me about this whole business -- NF could be a way
> > to "show" people how to meditate. (The article is at
> > http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0073.htm .)
> >
> > > Alpha is usually stronger than theta, especially in a wakeful,
> eyes-
> > > closed state. Therefore, to get to crossover, all you probably
> > > really need to do is train theta.
> >
> > I tried training theta four or five times, and every time,
> > I fell asleep after fifteen or twenty minutes. It made
> > me incredibly drowsy. I had to tear off the electrodes
> > and stumble into bed. It was like a powerful drug.
> > Any suggestions? And, what's the best electrode
> > location for boosting theta?
> >
> If your equipment permits it, maybe you should set the bandwidth to
a
> range of 6 to 8 Hz so you're training only _high_ theta.
> I generally use O1 (that should be subscript-1). O1 is the site
Elmer
> Green used, as did Peniston in his addictions and PTSD work. If
> you're not familiar with the international 10-20 EEG reference
system
> "O" stands for Occipital lobe. All odd numbers are on the left,
all
> even numbers are on the right, so to locate O1 you find your inion,
> which is the bump at the very back of your skull, near the bottom
> where your neck joins your head. Then from the inion you move up
> about 3 cm and then to the left 3 cm so you are now maybe 4 cm due
> "northwest" of the inion. That is O1. If you were to find the
> symmetrically matching point on the right side of the head, that
> would be O2. The point directly between them is Oz. Everything on
> the centerline is designated with a "z", so Cz is the point at the
> very top of the head, Pz (parietal-z) is halfway back from there to
> the inion. Fz (frontal-z) is halfway from Cz to the nasion (the
bump
> above your nose and getween your eyebrows), etc. You have to learn
> all that stuff for your BCIA EEG certification, and then you forget
> everything except the particular sites you use a lot on clients.
Boy
> was that a long-winded answer to a simple question. I think I'm
> developing a fairly serious case of hypergraphia.
>
> > > If this happened to a patient of mine, I
> > > would possibly do EMDR starting from the feeling, and might be
> able
> > > to pop the whole thing into consciousness so we could process
it
> > > through.
> >
> > What's EMDR?
>
> Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. A relatively new
> technique for helping people process various psychological
> materials. Its first major use was for post-traumatic stress
> disorder, but the field has been mushrooming as people find
different
> ways of using it. It's really too complex to describe fully here.
> Try searching on EMDRIA to get the page of the international
> organization of therapists who do it, and you will find a lot of
> information there. Probably more than you want to know.
>
> > People at Synchronicity talk about this stuff in terms of
> > "catharsis." They make it a verb, as in, "Back in the old
> > days, nobody here was clear yet, and we were all
> > catharting all over the place. It was wild."
> >
> > Is this idea of theta->catharsis sort of standard or
> > common among any group of psychotherapists today?
> > I'm curious because I had thought (probably in total
> > ignorance) that catharsis was a nineteenth century idea
> > that had mostly gone out of fashion, and here it was
> > holding hands with modern technology.
>
> Yup. People still talk about catharsis. The term was mostly only
> used by psychodynamic (e.g. Freudian) types for a long time, but is
> coming back into more widespread use now that we have better
methods
> for helping people through the process. You will also sometimes
hear
> people talking about "abreactions," by which they mean surfaced
> memories, feelings, etc. (like the incident you described, in
fact).
> But only if the abreacted materials are fully processed and thereby
> "cleansed" are they truly catharted. You had an abreaction but not
a
> catharsis, I guess, and I was talking about using EMDR to complete
> the catharsis.
can you tell a bit more about the ways you know to process this
things and how they work , or maybe just give good links about the
subject ?
> >
> > > They should have some purpose in
> > > mind, such as an intention to install an affirmation or to find
a
> > > creative solution to a specific problem. They don't have to
try
> to
> > > stay focused on the goal--I guarantee you can't stay focused on
> > > anything in theta--but setting the original purpose tends to
> organize
> > > the experience and keep your unconscious away from
> psychologically
> > > unsafe areas.
> >
> > That's very interesting. I think it's probably relevant
> > to the problem of seeking a result without making
> > an effort in meditation, which is something I'm very
> > interested in at the moment.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rob
thanks
yaniv
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