From: Joerg Hansmann (info_at_jhansmann.de)
Date: 2001-08-15 15:14:09
Hi yaniv ,
----- Original Message -----
From: yaniv vilnai
To: Rob Sacks ; Joerg Hansmann ; psytrix_at_o... ; peterson_at_d... ; buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: [buildcheapeeg] demonstartion of openeeg to universities .
>hey people
>i wanted to start the work on demonstartion to universities .
>so i'll write how i see this isues , what we wnat to achieve , problems , etc .
>
>what our goals with contact with universities are :
> get more poeple to know about us ,. and especailly serious people in electronics , psychology etc .
> get more poeple to work with us (h.w. - s.w. ) from academic staff, students
> solve legal problems (get to know poeple from university who would help in this)
I think legal problems are still an important issue - at least for the manufacturer
of the openEEG-device.
> help advance brain research and nfb research by this contacts
>
>the means to achieve this
> 1.show universities what we have done so far
> allow them to have easy acess to our machine , at low cost .
> ##currently as i have spoken with jeorg , ther'es a posibility to purchase the device at $250 .
> it's pretty far form the goal of $100 , but if and when it would b emanufactored in u.s.a it would cost around
> $100-$150 ,
Is this an estimation or did you contact some manufacturers in USA and got some offers ?
> so the question is do we tell the universities to buy the device currently at $250 ,
Would the universities you contacted really pay for an openEEG or do they
want free device-samples ?
I have read in de.sci.electronics about a simple ECG monitor:
The inventor gave dozends of free samples away.
In the end no one bought the device and he was sued, because someone
else had a patent for the electrode arrangement.
> ad show them the
> possibility of getting it to public at $100-$150 but telling them it would take more time , or waiting before the demo
,
> working all the thing s needed for manufactoring in u.s.a ? i prefer to go now , and tell them currently they can
> buy it at $250 and explain how the price would be reduced . what do you think ?
> BTW, jeorg , is all the manufactoring information , including box ,etc , is ready at the website ?
Sorry. No.
I did not make any progress with the 02 modular version, because I have
concentrated on comEEG hardware and software.
The only thing available at this time is the tested RS232EEEG01.
(and it is _not_ IEC601-1 conforming ...)
All more sophisticated versions are _not_ verified by building a prototype.
Regarding the casing I do not have any CAD drawings. However I think
that a competent manufacturer should very well be able to design
a plastic casing that holds the pcb, batteries, switches and LEDs ,
RS232 dsub connector and DIN-connectors for Electrodes.
> please send me the address again , cause i think i have lost it .
www.jhansmann.de
>
> ##we need to tell universities how to buy the machine , and we need to figure it out ourselfs .
> the best possible option if they send the money to jeorg , but jeorg , do you have a company they can
> send it only to the company and in case of something went wrong they can come to you ?
> how generally this things are done ?
Normally the manufacturer or seller of a device has to give guarantee for 1/2 year
and repair any defective device for free during this time.
Shipping cost in case of guarantee is normally payed by the customer.
Hardware and Software support (e.g. via telephone or email ) is a question of what is
negotiated for the sales contract.
If there are not too much requests for support I will help of course. However
if support begins to become a fulltime job the thing has to be reconsidered.
Another thing is product liability in case that a user gets electrocuted or injured
by the EEG-device.
> ##we need to write some legal liability note that would be sufficent in the case of the universities .
> again it's much eaiser then for general people , but still we have to do it right .
> a question for waldemar (who made contact with universities for the purpose of legal help )-
> can you ifnd some legal help from some univerisity who would help us in this simple task ?
> anybody else can find ?
> (BTW this version could be only worked with laptop , because it doesn't conform to iec601-1 .it's safe
> and isolated , but...)
The Laptop must be operated with batteries and _no_ peripherals or power-supply must be
connected.
> ##when they buy it , they need to have all the design in box , with all the essential accessories , like
> electrodes for example . or maybe we could the where to buy accessories (less prefered ) ?
> joerg , what do you do now for electrodes , how much it cost , etc...1?
I am using Nihon Kohden EEG-electrodes (for evoked potentials, completely shielded, pure silver,
plastic mantled, usage with 10-20 paste ).
They can be bought at LAZINA http://www.elektroden.de (Germany)
Article No. is H851 , a set of 5 electrodes with 2mm plugs (price: 107,--DM without VAT).
However I was told that H851 is obsolete now and replaced by H851A that has DIN-plugs
and is therefore more costly than H851.
The H851 can be attached to the H541 (replacement earclip clamp, 10 pcs. for 31,--DM, 2 pcs. needed)
The 10-20 paste wax I use, is SONOGEL - Electrode Gluey Paste for EEG,ECG and EMG
(200g pot), price and article number unknown.
For connecting to amplifier ground (or right leg driver in the more advanced versions)
I use a NIHON KOHDEN Fastclip ECG Electrode (CODE No. 2144-005553)
(4 pcs. , 1 pcs. needed) also available at LAZINA.
Instead of using the ECG electrode you can alternatively use the 5th electrode from the H851
package and paste it somewhere on your skin.
...
> 3. define things we need to do in the future (task list ) and put in or near the demo information
> so the univerisites would have acess to it , and wuold know what kinf od help we need .
> task list :
> #get a finished version , iec601-1 conforming ( irda option should be decided in future ) .
ACK. That will be the next thing to do for me.
> #testing of 10 units
> #solving legal problems
> #work on open source software
> #work on marketing ,raising awareness , etc .
> #make contact with american manufactorers , and have them sell the device at lowest possible cost .
> #work on source for low cost electrodes
...
Regards,
Joerg
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