From: Dave (dfisher_at_pophost.com)
Date: 2002-03-02 08:21:36
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:55:55 +0100, Joerg Hansmann wrote:
>> Perhaps you are not so much a visual learner as a kinesthetic one, or feelings
>> based, or auditory.
>
>Difficult to say. I have tried to focus on kinesthetic perception but that was in
>no way better than focussing on visuals.
>
>My main problem are endless chains of thougts that distract heavily from any
>internal perception (e.g. visual imagination).
Yes, such thoughts can go on forever, but can actually be used to help, rather
than hinder, you. If you, and I mean the "conscious mind you," has too tight a
grip in this process, then, yes, I can see how you would feel that your
thoughts are a distraction to the process. But the conscious mind has minimal
involvement in this process. At some point you simply need to trust yourself
on a very basic level. Let yourself drop down into the daydreams, knowing that
your strong desire to bridge these two states -- the waking and sleeping state
-- will plant the seeds that work on deeply unconscious levels. Then, as you
simply relax your body more and more, the "endless chain of thoughts" are not a
barrier because they are part of your "drifting off" process. Let them become
richer and more textured all by themselves. This is not something you do. It
is something which just happens. You have no control over this, and that is
where trust is necessary. Trust yourself. And pay attention to your dreams.
Pay attention to your reverie. For you, I would even go as far as say float in
that reverie when you try to "project" or dream consciously. Don't fight the
endless chain, let it simply be the current of the stream that enables you to
relax more deeply. Be prepared for surprises, thoughts may occur that suddenly
pop you back up into full waking consciousness (the conscious mind is like an
insatiable inquisitive monkey, and when "cool" things happen, it perks up!).
That's fine; note whatever brought you out of your relaxed state, let it go,
and begin to relax back down into reverie again, stating that you want to
bridge the gap between waking and sleeping as you drift downward.
You will probably fall asleep doing this, which is fine. You write later that
your thoughts become incoherent and that you get unconsciously absorbed in
dream scenes. That's ok, because as you search for this particular state which
is neither waking nor sleeping, you are bound to take the more well trodden
path into sleep, or day dreams, or the actual REM state.
But it is the repeated practice which will help bring about the change of state
you are looking for. Sometimes I will fall completely asleep, only to have
something in the dream bring about lucidity, or I will find myself in a
daydream that is one of those "endless chains" I wrote about above, and
suddenly realize that I am daydreaming, but this time, that realization does
not bring me back into full waking consciousness, and I am able to project.
>> Perhaps instead of trying to bring dreaming content back
>> into visual memory, you can simply relax
>
>Perhaps relaxation is the key and relaxation seems not to be
>compatible with too much thinking.
I think that would be a good thing for you to try. Also, throughout this
process, do not overlook your own wisdom and inner guidance. It may be that
the way you engage spiritual practice may manifest in some other means.
>> It is like
>> recursive dreaming. That happened three levels deep once, and believe me, when
>> I woke up the fourth time, it took a lot to convince me that I was not going
>> suddenly awaken.. again. ;-)
>
>And was the conviction justified ?
>Or did you just convince yourself that this dream here _must_
>be "Reality" ? ;-)
Touche. :) I think that my mind is just a tad too tired to truly dialogue the
implications of what you just said!
>> >> Lucidity continued to occur spontaneously a couple of times a year after that
>> >> until I began to explore L/S machines, which took it to a completely new level.
>> >
>> >That seems to be interesting. What session types did you use ?
>> >I assume that it has to something with theta waves (for entering the
>> >hypnagogic state) and some alpha and beta components to stay conscious.
>>
>> Well, believe it or not, I did not use a session on manual. I just set the L/S
>> machine for a 5.5 Hz offset using a carrier wave of 96 Hz. Hmmm... I'm not
>> sure how the Photosonix Nova Pro splits up the channels, but it was probably a
>> sine wave of 96Hz in one ear and 101.5Hz in the other. That's it.
>
>That is easy to implement with e.g. SDL.
I would very much like to explore this later on down the road as the OpenEEG
project matures.
>Did you use light stimulation too or only sound ?
When I use the L/S machine, it is only with sound now. I have rarely used the
light goggles over the past several years. I was using the light goggles the
first time that I projected, but stopped afterwards because they became too
distracting for me.
>> No fancy
>> program, no ramp down from beta, into alpha, etc. Just that nice low theta
>> beat of 5.5.
>
>Is this 5.5 Hz a "magic" frequency ? Or did other frequencies work also ?
Other frequencies around the same range have worked, also. I have tried 3.5,
4.5, and 5.5; all of which have worked. I really did not experiment with other
frequencies (higher ones seemed counterproductive). As to whether this is a
magic frequency that my body resonated with, or just sounds that helped me
focus in the right way, I can't say with any amount of certainty.
>> I was "half awake" and just relaxed into the vibrations, thinking "Oh, this
>> should be interesting to project here..." When the vibrations were of
>> sufficient intensity, I "rolled out" of the bed and into... how can I say this?
>> Into what was like a crack between realities.
>
>Malcolm Godwin wrote a chaper about this ("Falling between worlds")
Yes, directly after this experience, I remembered him talking about this state
and thinking "So; that's what you meant." I also remember him being
disappointed that he handled it so poorly. I also remember empathizing with
him about this, too. :-)
>> I
>> screamed, and could not stop screaming.
>
>Seemingly you have not been prepared for this experience...
It was such an unconscious reaction. Yes, I would say that I was not prepared
for that experience. If there is a next time, I hope to be able to relax and
simply accept such total absence in a much better way.
>> Charles Tart has done a lot
>> of studies in this area, and other than some unusual sleep spindles not being
>> where they should be (he did a lot of testing on Robert Monroe), I don't recall
>> anything significant showing up. It's been a while since I've read his
>> studies, though, so there may be more.
>
>LaBerge used a REM-detector (EOG or infared refelction sensor) and
>let his subjects signal that they were in the lucid dream state by
>a predefined eye movement pattern.
Yes, I thought that was fascinating, that there was a correlation between eye
movement in the dream state and physical state.
>It was even possible to send morse-code messages from the dream-world
>to a sensitive EMG device attached to the lower arm, because in REM sleep
>motoric nerves are attenuated but not totally bocked.
I guess it makes sense that sleep paralysis is not a complete catatonic state,
but I had not heard of this particular study. Incredible.
Thanks for sharing, Joerg... may enlightenment come to us all.
Dave.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : 2002-07-27 12:28:39 BST