From: peterson_at_d...
Date: 2001-06-30 19:42:18
--- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, "frans" <f.smith_at_c...> wrote:
> Hi Moritz,
>
> I found the paper in files from canadian hackers !!!!
> All the files had tho do with hacking and freaking, but
> there where some files about electronics. I found two
> files about biofeedback. The files where written by
> Tom collura. (brainmaster). Whe from buildcheapeeg
> are not bound to ask Tom for permission. In fact whe
> could just re-write the paper, and eventual make a re-
> verent to Tom Collura.
Frans--You are generally a wonderful and idealistic fellow, but I
believe you are wrong here. Why are you angry? Tom has put an
immense amount of work into the BM project, made his design available
to others for years, did not steal anything from anybody, and
eventually developed his device into what is arguably the best low-
cost EEG training device on the market. He continues to improve it,
as witness the new version that handles coherence. If he makes a few
$$ to offset the tremendous work he has done, good for him. I don't
really see us as in competition with him; we are filling a different
niche. I also don't want to see us use other people's property
without permission. Let's find that article on the BM website if
it's still there, and link to it; or otherwise, publish it ourselves
only with Tom's permission and with a link to the BM home page. I
have followed developments in the BM world for years, and have always
been impressed by Tom's character and generosity. And at some point
in the next year, I expect that I will buy a BM, even though I have
every hope for the success of our OpenEEG. There really need not be
a conflict between the two camps.
> I don't think Tom would like to to help us. Not because
> he don't want to, but the brainmaster is an other project.
> It is still running (software). So our group will at the end
> re-place the expencive and old brainmaster.
Tom has no obligation to help us. Nevertheless, he is (or was; I
haven't checked lately) a member of this group, and has corresponded
with Yaniv.
> As a matter of fact, ideal would have been when Tom again starded a
new project for a new device. But he did
> not do so. They (BM) starded software projects.
> So when his project was running they had no reason to
> develop a newer system. Then came others who
> starded a new project (buildcheapeeg). You understand
> that this could be the end of BM. Suppose if Tom had
> contacted our group, then ther would be no problem, for
> the rs232 could replace BM in time, lets say up-grade BM. In fact
when Tom would be a member, whe would
> have already a channel for marketing. RS232 would then
> be the test-name, and BM could then promote the new
> machine. So all BM users and new users could by a much
> cheaper device. The software project from BM could then be
compatible with rs232. Its a fact that an new
> device is only so for some years, like a computer.
> Tom did not joined the group, he could have done so.
> I don't know if he likes the project, but he could know
> that just as his old 486-pc would had to go because of
> pentium, the BM would have to make place for rs232.
>
> The succes of rs232 together with modern computers
> (and lower cost for pc's), and better software could make
> BM a second choice. for the machine uses old technolgy,
> while rs232 is modern, at the same time the price is
> about 800.00 US dollar !!!. No normal thinking man
> would by a BM.
>
> It seems that in the past the BM was patented. So some-
> one (Tom) had to pay for the patend. Also for FDA
> approvement, production, marketing etc..So a lot of in-
> vestment. Is only fair then that Tom would have to ask
> a price so as to earn back all the time and money.
> Therefore a compleet new device, much cheaper would be but an evil
concurent. (afther all, those man starded
> BFB/NFB al long time ago).
>
> If Tom would think logic, he would participate in the
> project. None of us would be against it. In fact, afther
> all the basics (fda approvement, patent etc) Tom could
> try to sell the system as the new BM. None of us need
> to make a living out of it. In fact, whe would support Tom
> where ever whe could. Make the sytem 100% compatible
> with the BM-open sourche project etc.
>
> Perhaps whe should talk with Tom about this, in time.
> For me it is not logic to wait until some engineers finally
> succeed in building an selling an new device.
>
> Information about FDA can also be found at there web-
> site. Or whe could write to BFB organisations etc.
> however, a FDA approvement could take a long time and
> money. This is where the project could end up dead.
I have argued before, and will continue to argue, that we don't need
FDA approval to develop and put forward our device, provided we don't
make medical claims for it. That's what the disclaimers you and I
worked on are all about.
> for now its the members like me who build those machines for
personal use, and to fool arround..
> If however the project must end up...in the market then
> whe need more members (not technologist) to bring in
> some use-full stuf.
> I don't know if i have posted a message about FDA,
> but i did investigate something like ECG at there site.
> I look if i can find it and post it again.
>
> regards. Frans.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Moritz v. Buttlar
> To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 9:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [buildcheapeeg] LEGAL/FDA
>
>
>
> Hi frans !
>
> Great text you posted there ! Where did you pick it up ? Maybe we
could ask the
> author if we could post in on our website ?
>
> Moritz
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Baltic Microsolutions / Flash Microcontroller Custom-
Development
> http://www.baltic-microsolutions.de
>
> < open-source neurofeedback project at http://www.openeeg.org !>
>
>
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