From: frans (f.smith_at_c...)
Date: 2001-07-15 06:59:57
Hi,
Again, some people suffer from a condition (i forgot the
name) where the blood-circulation is in-correct.
That is they suffer from cold hand or feets. The use of
temp. FB makes is possible to learn to raise the temp.
Probally there are more conditions like this.
BFB/NFB is used to learn to control or influence physiological systems like bloodcirculation, blood-
pressure, heart-beat,
--- Original Message -----
From: yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com
To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: [buildcheapeeg] Re: Software requirements
hi
first ,when i do temp bfb i usualy can get to around 96.6F -97.1F
there is a reason to try for more ?
i feel somewhat relaxed , but it's not such a unique thing-
i can meditate or just calm myself down to get to this , i think .
so maybe for this bfb i don't need .
but again - for most people - how usefull is temp bfb, how much it
attracts people to bfb ? what the change most people experience after
this ? is like that's the first time the feel the relaxtion response
or know how to go there ?
what prevent temp bfb becoming very popular ?
many question , but i hope theyle be useful
sincerly yaniv
--- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, peterson_at_d... wrote:
> --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, "frans" <f.smith_at_c...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Temperature Feed Back.
> >
> > Lets asume the temperature of the human body is
> > 37 degree's Celsius. A to high temp. would be fever.
> >
> > Raising only one or two degree's celsius could be done,
> > but it works slowly. GSR for example react fast.
> > From all the bfb methods temp. is the slowest.
> > One can use temp. with succes, but the problem is dat it
> > works slow.
> >
> I think that temperature is very much underrated as a biofeedback
> procedure--not just by you, Frans, butr by many professionals in
the
> field as well. True, temperature responses are somewhat slow, but
> that can actually be an advantage. If the instrumentation doesn't
> pick up every fleeting change and orienting response like EDR does,
> they are less distracted by the equipment and seem better able to
> focus on the relaxation process. People in relatively high anxiety
> states often start out with fingers at (or only slightly above)
room
> temperature (~20 C). To get from there to 35 C is pretty
impressive,
> and because the electronic thermometers read in 0.10 degree
> increments, they get a lot of feedback about even very small
> temperature changes. In my experience, it takes about 6 to 10
> sessions of training before people learn to reliably get to the 35
or
> 35.5 degree criterion. I have had really wonderful clinical
results
> with these simple devices in many cases. At the AAPB convention in
> Denver, Dr. Pat Norris (daugher of Elmer Green, a pioneer in EEG
> biofeedback, who with her husband Steve Fahrion has done a lot of
EEG
> biofeedback work) presented a whole session on temperature
training.
> She ties it in with a variety of approaches including Assagioli's
> psychosynthesis. Also, Gene Peniston (originator of neurotherapy
for
> addictions) always uses temperature training in the first few
> sessions before putting his patients onto the EEG equipment, partly
> because it helps them to see the connection between mind and body,
> and partly because it helps prepare them for the alpha-theta
training.
>
> Get a cheap thermometer and try it. You may be surprised--but make
> sure it amples temp every couple of seconds like the Harbor Freight
> ones do, or like the ones commonly sold especially for biofeedback
> do. Biomedical Instruments sells a special biofeedback thermometer
> for about $20 if you want something a little fancier than the
Harbor
> Freight version I mentioned earlier.
>
> A therapist must convince a client he/she can control his/
> > her body. At least some parts of it.
> > If this would take to long, then the client would not be
> > building confidence. A qiuck prove that one can influence
> > one's body-processes gives client confidence.
>
> In my experience, people do learn to change finger temperature
quite
> easily and quickly. They almost always start getting useful
results
> in the first session, and these are only 15 or 20 minute sessions.
> >
> > Temp, is used in anxiety. There is some illness where
> > people suffer from bad blood circulation. Raising the
> > temp, in an given area can improve the condition.
> > A higher body temp. at a given location indicates more
> > blood circulation. Only logic then to use temp. for con-
> > ditions where you need to have better blood circulation.
> >
> > In my opinion Temp.FB, is only important in the above
> > conditions, and for experiments. In autogenic training people
learn
> to relax, raise the temp. of arms and legs etc..
> > If you would try this you would notic its easy with arms and your
> feets. But if you try to raise the temp of any
> > onther part of the body it would be not that easy.
> >
> > For example, in mind-control class, i could feel heat in my
> > feets and lower legs, and in my hands. Notat the top of
> > my head, or in my neck....To become more sensitive to
> > other parts of the body temp.FB is ideal. But again, it
> > works slow.
> >
> > EEG can be used for depression sinds some wave patterns correlate
> to depression (according to rechearch).
> > GSR, Temp, ECG, EMG, are only physiological reactions
> > due to some problems like fear, stress etc...
> >
> > Most BFB learn us to react different to events, social or
> > psychological proplems. Controlling our reaction to some
> > event makes that a event does not control us anymore...
> >
> > F. smith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: peterson_at_d...
> > To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 6:04 PM
> > Subject: [buildcheapeeg] Re: Software requirements
> >
> >
> > --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com wrote:
> > > hi
> > > 1. about my goal - it was just to design the s.w. with some
> option
> > > that in future it could be used for bfb/nfb . just not to do
> the
> > same
> > > work twice in the future . i know it delays in some when open
> > source
> > > s.w. is ready but , we have some nfb soft and second it's the
> right
> > > way to work .
> > > 2.about bfb , there's on type of bfb that is very simple to
do -
>
> > > hand temperature biofeedback. the tools are cheap and
> availble
> > > - a simple digital thermometer .but still it's not very
used
> > > technique . why ? can anybody start working on this area ?
> > > because to some extent i think the same things that prevent
> > > nfb from bein popular , and the same things that prevent
> thermal
> > > bfb from being popular .
> > > and i think if we do some serious work on making thermal
bfb
> > > popular we have a stronger base for making nfb popular .
> > > it might be very helpfull to our goal (giving the power of
> nfb
> > > to public) .
> > > 3. on a personal note , could someone write a serious note on
> > thermal
> > > training ? because i have started on this , and i have a
> few
> > > questions , like for example what temp should i achieve ?
> > > what techinques can i use to achieve lowe temp ???
> > >
> > >
> > You're absolutely rightr about the value of temperature
training,
> and
> > the cheapness of the equipment. Actually, I use it a lot
because
> the
> > equipment is so cheap that one can do it in groups, with an
> > instrument for each participant. You can use almost any
> thermometer
> > that you can hold in your fingers, such as a glass alcohol
> > thermometer with an exposed bulb you can grasp, but I buy
simple
> $10
> > indoor-outdoor thermometers from Harbor Freight
> > (www.harborfreight.com). You switch the thermometer onto
Outdoor
> and
> > hold the end of the probe with the thermocouple between your
> fingers.
> > These are good thermometers because they sample temperature
every
> > couple of seconds. Many other I/O thermometers, like the ones
> Radio
> > Shack sells, only sample every 10 or 15 seconds and that's too
> slow
> > for feedback. We generally try to get people up to 96 F (35.5
C)
> > finger temperature. To accomplish this, you can use many
> approaches,
> > such as listening to a progressive muscle relaxation tape or an
> > autogenics tape. Or just keep repeating to yourself words
> > like "Soft, warm, heavy, limp" (limp as in loose, free of
muscle
> > tension) and trying to increase these feelings in your body.
> >
> > Hope this is helpful.
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, peterson_at_d... wrote:
> > > > --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, "frans" <f.smith_at_c...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Yaniv and other members,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking of a MODULAIR BFB/NFB SYSTEM.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Computer interface including .
> > > > > * Module 1, EEG for neurofeedback.
> > > > > * Module 2, ECG
> > > > > * Module 3, GSR (very effective for anxiety)
> > > > > * Module 4, Temperature FB.
> > > > > * Module 5, EMG
> > > > >
> > > > This is an absolutely fascinating idea. I think most of
the
> > > > biofeedback equipment on the market is grossly overpriced,
> and if
> > > it
> > > > were more commonly available a whole lot of people would be
> > better
> > > > served. This would by no means reduce the need for
> therapists,
> > who
> > > > would be able to keep themselves very busy as "coaches."
One
> > very
> > > > interesting new area is heart rate variability (based
either
> on
> > > > EKG/ecg or on a finger pulse sensor), which seems to be
> important
> > > in
> > > > reducing the potential for heart attacks, etc. The process
> of
> > > > learning to increase your heart rate variability apparently
> > > involves
> > > > learning to be less angry. I don't really understand the
> whole
> > > > psychophysiology of it, but there is a website,
> > www.heartmath.com,
> > > > that I think some of us might find interesting to check
out.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, I really hope these side excursions do not
> distract
> > > us
> > > > from accomplishing our main purpose of developing the
openEEG
> > > system.
> > > > --Jim Peterson
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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