From: frans (f.smith_at_c...)
Date: 2001-07-15 08:32:12
Hi,
sorry, is pushed the send-button by accident.
okay:
Temp FB. people who are atracted by Temp.FB,
are people like us (experimenters), and people who
NEED to learn to control blood circulation, because
of some condition. Some people suffer from cold hand
and feets due to poor circulation. (i forgot the name).
If our group succeeds in making NFB/BFB available
for a wide public, then automaticly whe would attrack
different people. (our information then is important).
ohter people belong to groups like:
BFB/NFB experimenters (like us)
Silva mind-control, autogenic training, sports-man,
hypno-therapists, psychotherapists, yogi etc.........
Like i allready pointed out, i am able to generate heat
in my feets and hand. But not at the top of my head,
or lets say my schoulder. Why, whe are not that sensi-
tive at that point. In yoga people can focus on each
part of the body, making the body concious.
The use of Temp.FB then is a good tool to help in
becomming more aware of places like the top of my head.
GSR is fine for anxiety etc...However, i leanr us to
change our reaction to some image or event.
Sportman can learn to relax while thinking of a game.
Students can learn to relax for there examination.
Like Tem.FB GSR will not deal with (real) depression
However, all methods need relaxation, so relaxation
in-it-self would lower blood-pressure, bring down
hear-beat etc...
Relaxation is only one part, but to learn to control
bloodpressure, brainwaves, tension (emg) etc....
at will is the challenge. In yoga this would take years.
EMG is fantastic to learn to relax musles at will.
I have pain in my fore-head (tension), emg learns
to relax these muscles at will. There are specific
places where tension manifest (neck, back, head etc)
Relaxation would alter such a condition, but emg
would give you the power to control muscles.
In one of my book (from the 70's) i could read
about a man who learned not to speak internally.
When whe read whe talk inside our head (sub-vocalisa-
tion).
There are manny reason to use BFB. In yoga people
where able to raise the temp. of there hands in winter-
time.
One thing is important. All methods result in relaxation.
Therefore the boy would be (tempor) free of tension,
fear, etc...
If some event brings fear, then GSR could alter this,
but Temp, or EMG could also.
Fear for example changes hart-beat, realxation brings
it down. You could use GSR, EMG, TEMP to change
your reaction to fear/event. The choise is yours.
EMG is interesting sinds it can be used for rehabilitation
of muscles (injury), but also to alter tension, or just to
learn to control the muscles, to make the body more
sensitive.
In my case:
main goal.....top focus (concentration).
Control the whole body as far as possible (mind over
matter idea).
Control over emotions.
NFB/BFB is fantastic...
GSR sensitive to emotions, if the GSR is of high
quality then its extremely usefull to change behaviour.
In psycholgy the term de-sensi-tation means that
a given event/image does not influence you (at least
not in the way is used to be).
Whe could talk about all the possibillity's but would be
to long.
Try this one:
When you lie in bed, focus on your feets. You generate
heat. Now your hand, you generate heat.
Now try your butt, ah..you see...you cannot, try you
chest....your ellbow....you see you cannot...
You notice that your feet stay warm, cannot change
from feet to ellbow....
With Temp.FB you could learn it, also with yoga but
would take some years or so...
There are a few groups:
1. people suffering from some illness/condition,
(mental or physical) Proff. Therapists/rechearch.
2. Mind over matter freaks, yogi, mind-control etc..
3. Peak-performance, sports, buissiness, ......
4. general therapists, hypno, psycho, counselers etc..
5. experimenters (like us)....
6. Technolgy (controlling motors, etc..).
Try visualisation, imagine you muscle using a weigth.
you will notic heat, and even can measure the result.
Imagine jogging, you boddy will react in the same way
asi in real-time. (afther some time however the heart
beat etc..lowers, i don't know why).
In yoga they allready used such a system. imagine
weigth lifting, the arm/muscle will grow. (perhaps not
as in boddy-building but it will).
In chi-gong whe learned to "open" vertebrea so as to
eleminate stagnation and make the chi flow.
imagine a (blood) vene/arteria, can you contract it or
reverse the process ?? yes you can, NASA is doing this.( with VR/BFB)
Can you infuence deep musles ? or a vene/arteria in the
head ???? you can, ask professionals.
You understand that BFB can be dangerous.
Try to imagine Jennifer Anniston getting small-poks for free...you can with no side-effects...but don't try to imagine a pulsating vene/arteria in your head for it migth work....don't try to exercise your heart if you don't
know why and what you are doing !!!!!!!!
Its a fact that imagination is powerfull, even without
BFB/NFB you could change you bio-chemistry etc..
In fact, i believe that you could learn to change brain
waves without NFB. Yoga and other forms have pro-
ven this for hundreds of years.
You could use BFB to help you with smoking-habbit.
You could also imagine your self free from smoking,
healthy, strong etc..with the same results....
I guess NFB/BFB works faster sind whe are given
direct FEED-BACK at what whe are doing.
Best Regards.
Frans.
----- Original Message -----
From: yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com
To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: [buildcheapeeg] Re: Software requirements
hi
first ,when i do temp bfb i usualy can get to around 96.6F -97.1F
there is a reason to try for more ?
i feel somewhat relaxed , but it's not such a unique thing-
i can meditate or just calm myself down to get to this , i think .
so maybe for this bfb i don't need .
but again - for most people - how usefull is temp bfb, how much it
attracts people to bfb ? what the change most people experience after
this ? is like that's the first time the feel the relaxtion response
or know how to go there ?
what prevent temp bfb becoming very popular ?
many question , but i hope theyle be useful
sincerly yaniv
--- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, peterson_at_d... wrote:
> --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, "frans" <f.smith_at_c...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Temperature Feed Back.
> >
> > Lets asume the temperature of the human body is
> > 37 degree's Celsius. A to high temp. would be fever.
> >
> > Raising only one or two degree's celsius could be done,
> > but it works slowly. GSR for example react fast.
> > From all the bfb methods temp. is the slowest.
> > One can use temp. with succes, but the problem is dat it
> > works slow.
> >
> I think that temperature is very much underrated as a biofeedback
> procedure--not just by you, Frans, butr by many professionals in
the
> field as well. True, temperature responses are somewhat slow, but
> that can actually be an advantage. If the instrumentation doesn't
> pick up every fleeting change and orienting response like EDR does,
> they are less distracted by the equipment and seem better able to
> focus on the relaxation process. People in relatively high anxiety
> states often start out with fingers at (or only slightly above)
room
> temperature (~20 C). To get from there to 35 C is pretty
impressive,
> and because the electronic thermometers read in 0.10 degree
> increments, they get a lot of feedback about even very small
> temperature changes. In my experience, it takes about 6 to 10
> sessions of training before people learn to reliably get to the 35
or
> 35.5 degree criterion. I have had really wonderful clinical
results
> with these simple devices in many cases. At the AAPB convention in
> Denver, Dr. Pat Norris (daugher of Elmer Green, a pioneer in EEG
> biofeedback, who with her husband Steve Fahrion has done a lot of
EEG
> biofeedback work) presented a whole session on temperature
training.
> She ties it in with a variety of approaches including Assagioli's
> psychosynthesis. Also, Gene Peniston (originator of neurotherapy
for
> addictions) always uses temperature training in the first few
> sessions before putting his patients onto the EEG equipment, partly
> because it helps them to see the connection between mind and body,
> and partly because it helps prepare them for the alpha-theta
training.
>
> Get a cheap thermometer and try it. You may be surprised--but make
> sure it amples temp every couple of seconds like the Harbor Freight
> ones do, or like the ones commonly sold especially for biofeedback
> do. Biomedical Instruments sells a special biofeedback thermometer
> for about $20 if you want something a little fancier than the
Harbor
> Freight version I mentioned earlier.
>
> A therapist must convince a client he/she can control his/
> > her body. At least some parts of it.
> > If this would take to long, then the client would not be
> > building confidence. A qiuck prove that one can influence
> > one's body-processes gives client confidence.
>
> In my experience, people do learn to change finger temperature
quite
> easily and quickly. They almost always start getting useful
results
> in the first session, and these are only 15 or 20 minute sessions.
> >
> > Temp, is used in anxiety. There is some illness where
> > people suffer from bad blood circulation. Raising the
> > temp, in an given area can improve the condition.
> > A higher body temp. at a given location indicates more
> > blood circulation. Only logic then to use temp. for con-
> > ditions where you need to have better blood circulation.
> >
> > In my opinion Temp.FB, is only important in the above
> > conditions, and for experiments. In autogenic training people
learn
> to relax, raise the temp. of arms and legs etc..
> > If you would try this you would notic its easy with arms and your
> feets. But if you try to raise the temp of any
> > onther part of the body it would be not that easy.
> >
> > For example, in mind-control class, i could feel heat in my
> > feets and lower legs, and in my hands. Notat the top of
> > my head, or in my neck....To become more sensitive to
> > other parts of the body temp.FB is ideal. But again, it
> > works slow.
> >
> > EEG can be used for depression sinds some wave patterns correlate
> to depression (according to rechearch).
> > GSR, Temp, ECG, EMG, are only physiological reactions
> > due to some problems like fear, stress etc...
> >
> > Most BFB learn us to react different to events, social or
> > psychological proplems. Controlling our reaction to some
> > event makes that a event does not control us anymore...
> >
> > F. smith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: peterson_at_d...
> > To: buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 6:04 PM
> > Subject: [buildcheapeeg] Re: Software requirements
> >
> >
> > --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, yaniv_vi_at_yahoo.com wrote:
> > > hi
> > > 1. about my goal - it was just to design the s.w. with some
> option
> > > that in future it could be used for bfb/nfb . just not to do
> the
> > same
> > > work twice in the future . i know it delays in some when open
> > source
> > > s.w. is ready but , we have some nfb soft and second it's the
> right
> > > way to work .
> > > 2.about bfb , there's on type of bfb that is very simple to
do -
>
> > > hand temperature biofeedback. the tools are cheap and
> availble
> > > - a simple digital thermometer .but still it's not very
used
> > > technique . why ? can anybody start working on this area ?
> > > because to some extent i think the same things that prevent
> > > nfb from bein popular , and the same things that prevent
> thermal
> > > bfb from being popular .
> > > and i think if we do some serious work on making thermal
bfb
> > > popular we have a stronger base for making nfb popular .
> > > it might be very helpfull to our goal (giving the power of
> nfb
> > > to public) .
> > > 3. on a personal note , could someone write a serious note on
> > thermal
> > > training ? because i have started on this , and i have a
> few
> > > questions , like for example what temp should i achieve ?
> > > what techinques can i use to achieve lowe temp ???
> > >
> > >
> > You're absolutely rightr about the value of temperature
training,
> and
> > the cheapness of the equipment. Actually, I use it a lot
because
> the
> > equipment is so cheap that one can do it in groups, with an
> > instrument for each participant. You can use almost any
> thermometer
> > that you can hold in your fingers, such as a glass alcohol
> > thermometer with an exposed bulb you can grasp, but I buy
simple
> $10
> > indoor-outdoor thermometers from Harbor Freight
> > (www.harborfreight.com). You switch the thermometer onto
Outdoor
> and
> > hold the end of the probe with the thermocouple between your
> fingers.
> > These are good thermometers because they sample temperature
every
> > couple of seconds. Many other I/O thermometers, like the ones
> Radio
> > Shack sells, only sample every 10 or 15 seconds and that's too
> slow
> > for feedback. We generally try to get people up to 96 F (35.5
C)
> > finger temperature. To accomplish this, you can use many
> approaches,
> > such as listening to a progressive muscle relaxation tape or an
> > autogenics tape. Or just keep repeating to yourself words
> > like "Soft, warm, heavy, limp" (limp as in loose, free of
muscle
> > tension) and trying to increase these feelings in your body.
> >
> > Hope this is helpful.
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, peterson_at_d... wrote:
> > > > --- In buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com, "frans" <f.smith_at_c...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Yaniv and other members,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking of a MODULAIR BFB/NFB SYSTEM.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Computer interface including .
> > > > > * Module 1, EEG for neurofeedback.
> > > > > * Module 2, ECG
> > > > > * Module 3, GSR (very effective for anxiety)
> > > > > * Module 4, Temperature FB.
> > > > > * Module 5, EMG
> > > > >
> > > > This is an absolutely fascinating idea. I think most of
the
> > > > biofeedback equipment on the market is grossly overpriced,
> and if
> > > it
> > > > were more commonly available a whole lot of people would be
> > better
> > > > served. This would by no means reduce the need for
> therapists,
> > who
> > > > would be able to keep themselves very busy as "coaches."
One
> > very
> > > > interesting new area is heart rate variability (based
either
> on
> > > > EKG/ecg or on a finger pulse sensor), which seems to be
> important
> > > in
> > > > reducing the potential for heart attacks, etc. The process
> of
> > > > learning to increase your heart rate variability apparently
> > > involves
> > > > learning to be less angry. I don't really understand the
> whole
> > > > psychophysiology of it, but there is a website,
> > www.heartmath.com,
> > > > that I think some of us might find interesting to check
out.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, I really hope these side excursions do not
> distract
> > > us
> > > > from accomplishing our main purpose of developing the
openEEG
> > > system.
> > > > --Jim Peterson
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >
> >
> >
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