From: Joerg Hansmann (info_at_jhansmann.de)
Date: 2002-02-27 16:39:25
Hi Dave,
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave <dfisher_at_pophost.com>
To: <buildcheapeeg_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [buildcheapeeg] Balance
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:01:32 +0100, Joerg Hansmann wrote:
>
> >> When I began experiencing dreaming consciously,
> >
> >Was this a result of NFB or experiments with binaural beats or spontaneous ?
>
> At that point, neither. I worked closely with a professor during college years
> who was a rather interesting cross between Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud, and Billy
> Graham. We did a lot of therapeutic work together, and he had this one
> technique he called "dream implosion." Essentially, it is reliving dream
> content from a relaxed, conscious state and then letting the content unfold
This seems to require a great deal of (visual) imagination - a skill that is
not really available for me ...
> in
> order to offer insight and resolution to personal issues. I had some traumas I
> was dealing with at the time, and this process was helping me understand the
> emotive content. Interestingly enough, I would not use this approach to work
> with disturbing emotional content anymore, but that's another story. It did
> serve, however, to act as a bridge between my emotive and intellectual self.
> So I continued to implode my dreams and journal the results. The act of
> journalling helped me consciously process that which I experienced in the
> quasi-dream state
In what way does this state differ from "normal" dreams or from lucid dreams ?
> of the "implosion."
>
> This is what I attribute to the advent of conscious dreaming for me. It took
> me by complete surprise. I recall the first incident quite vividly because I
> was in the midst of a nightmare. The fear was very intense. All of a sudden,
> I was conscious in the dream. I can't say that I enjoyed this, as the
> circumstances were not very pleasant. Why couldn't I become conscious while
> frolicking on the beach of some far flung planet? Or exploring the mysterious
> catacombs of an Egyptian pyramid? Noooo.... it had to be the nightmarescape of
> my own fears. Well, without going into too much detail, I decided that at that
> point I had had enough, and launched myself into the heart of my worst fears
> and did battle with them.
>
> Lucidity continued to occur spontaneously a couple of times a year after that
> until I began to explore L/S machines, which took it to a completely new level.
That seems to be interesting. What session types did you use ?
I assume that it has to something with theta waves (for entering the
hypnagogic state) and some alpha and beta components to stay conscious.
...
> >Very interesting. I am trying to have lucid dreams for several years now,
> >using the methods of Tholey and LaBerge but with very little success.
>
> I've read LaBerge, but am not familiar with Foley.
Paul Tholey has been a German researcher. One of his centres in research was
utilizing the lucid dream state to enhance motor skills in sportsmen.
Later he made excessive experiments with the dream ego (e.g. cutting his
dream body into a left and a right part and see what part contains the "observer"
or if the observer is split too)
Some of these experiments about getting rid of the ego led to a state of
incredible bliss while others were pure horror.
> There are some places I
> really resonate with my own experience (in the way other's reach this
> particular state) and other things which do not. While I think there are some
> commonalities which are important, a lot of this is the daily work of
> recognizing that your dreaming mind and waking mind are the same thing.
So you permanently remind yourself that all you experience could
be a dream ?
> They
> are not separate. Right now I am experiencing myself in a room, typing at a
> keyboard, having all the same types of sensations that I experienced last night
> in the dreaming state.
If the experiences are of the same type what makes up the difference
between the waking "reality" and the dream state ?
> And *those* experiences play at the edges of my mind
> right now, just as *these* experiences will play a role in my dreaming
> experience. What we are doing is convincing ourselves that they can both play
> together. And play nicely. Based on some of the horrific experiences I have
> had, I think the latter is important. ;)
>
> >Can you outline how your induction method works ?
>
> It is rather straightforward, and involves many elements found in literature on
> the subject today.
Then I should know them ;-)
> I don't think I have anything new to add there. However, I
> did include an e-mail I wrote to a friend on this subject at my website at
> http://www.psychosensory.com/projections.html, or more specifically... just a
> sec...
>
> Ok, I just re-read what I put out there
> (http://www.psychosensory.com/docs/m081501.txt).
I have read some of the files and the method described there looked very familar
to me.
> There is so much more that
> can be said, that then I would end up writing a book just like everyone else.
> It gives an idea of the induction process I use, though. Understand that it
> takes anywhere from 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours for me to project, and I am not
> always successful.
Not always but often ?
> It is easiest to do this in the morning, especially in the
> wee hours around 5-6am after you have an a good night's sleep, and you are in
> REM more frequently than not.
>
> But I am more than glad to dialogue with you on this more if you want to bounce
> some ideas off me for your own practice.
I am glad to hear this. :-)
Here a short description of my difficulties to enter the dream state
consciously:
If I try to focus on being aware of what is happening, I simply
stay awake or my thinking becomes incoherent and confused after some
time and I loose awareness.
> It is a bit off-topic, though, for
> the creation of EEG devices though, so we might want to take it off-list or to
> some place like Mind-L. :)
I have just subscribed to Mind-L.
However I think that as long as the discussion has some relation to
brainwaves and NFB protocols, it is sufficiently on topic.
Best Regards,
Joerg
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